[Snippet from "Brainless"]
"Who can say for sure? Perhaps a frontal lobotomy would be the answer
If science could operate on this distorted brain and put it to good use
Society will reap a great benefit."
[Zane Lowe]
Let's talk about your work on the record as a producer, because I know on Relapse you did nothing, on Recovery you got back into it, I've always said to you as long as I've know you or you've been making beats how much of a fan I am of your particular music, your production for others as well as just for yourself.
[Eminem]
Oh, thank you.
[Zane Lowe]
And so to hear you back making beats again on some of the standout beats on the record was a real thrill. So, I mean, how was that getting back into the producer's chair and deciding to wear two hats again?
[Eminem]
Urm, I mean that was fun, it was fun to, to be able to, just mess around with beats from scratch again and, you know, sometimes, like, I think Recovery was the first time that I ever got really super-open to, urr, working with a lot of other producers, you know that was the most I had ever done, and, you know, aside from working with Dre. You know, so, on that album kind of opened those doors a little bit, so that's kinda how early on, we started approaching this record, or this album, and sometimes, like I may get something in my head like an idea or the mood of something that I would want and I'm not always gonna get that by going through, you know, different tracks if other people have made, they don't know what's in my head, you know what I'm saying, so it's also a good way to, ur, I think maybe it helps with diversity a little bit too, with the sound and all that, you know, I would get something in my head and wanna be able to lay that idea down from scratch.
[Zane Lowe]
It just sounds like your being inspired by rap, in a big big way, I mean...
[Eminem]
Absolutely
[Zane Lowe]
I mean, I know you've always been that way, we've known each other for a long time and I've met you at various points throughout every album and I know that it's...
[Eminem]
I just met you, out there I thought... It's all good man, I'm still peeling the floors. (Laughter)
[Zane Lowe]
Um, you know and the music reflects your head space, it's always been pretty honest, not just lyrically but also musically I mean there was a time when the beats you were making were all very kind of minor key and lots of strings and lots of, kind of, a lot of Drama. The beats on here are fun. I mean, they're fat, big and rap! Like inspired by hip-hop!
[Eminem]
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty much all I do, and all I wanna do, you know what I'm saying like, so it's fun for me, like I'm still, you know, like I'm still pa**ionate about hip-hop, and every aspect of it, so, making beats and producing, you know, is definitely, it's fun for me.
[Zane Lowe]
What is it about rap that you love? I mean I'm a huge, I mean I grew up on hip-hop and it forms pretty much every sort of thing I've ever done in my life pretty much to some form, and what I wondered, you know, being someone who is considered one of the greatest of all time, what is it about rap the art form, if you can even trace it back to when you first discovered it, to how you feel about it now and what are your most rap-heavy records?
[Eminem]
You know, just a lot of rap.
[Zane Lowe]
A lot of rapping on there, a lot of words?
[Eminem]
Yeah
[Zane Lowe]
What is it about it that you love, if you can put it into words?
[Eminem]
Hmm, I dunno, I, urm, I love the fact that you can, I love the expression of it. The fact that you can, you know, just, I don't know, I love the, I love beats and rhymes and I love the fact that you can express yourself in a rhyme and lay it down and it can be therapeutic, and you've got it off your chest, and then you could go on to the next thing, I don't know, there's so much sh** that I love about rap, you know, I'm in it for like, I love to watch what's going on in the game and keep my finger on the pulse of that, you know, and it's exciting to watch as a fan, for me too, you know, just being a fan of hip-hop, urm, and watching as it, you know, the evolution of it, and, you know, how it moves from each year to year, you know what I'm saying, the direction, and...
[Zane Lowe]
Are you sort of relieved that you can be that now, you can be a contender for the world's greatest rapper along with a selection of your peers and it can be a really amazing rap record and to a certain extent, I hope you take this the right way because I know your strong career, very popular, number 1 in 80+ countries, huge, but the pop stars kind of did, you know, in the sense of what people expect from you these days, isn't it, you don't have to be that guy any more, you can just be a rapper and make rap records if you want. Is that a relief?
[Eminem]
Well, yeah, I think so, urm, it's one of them things like, as far as like, being a pop star or whatever like, I never, never intended to be any of that, you know wha I'm saying, like, all I ever wanted to do was get respect from, you know, my peers and other rappers, and, urm, all the other stuff that came with it was just, you know, confusing to me, it was, I don't know, like I don't feel like I ever set out to make a pop song or a song that was gonna be some kind of crossover song or whatever... is that for me?
[Zane Lowe]
Yeah, if you want it.
[Eminem]
Thanks man, appreciate it. Urm...
[Zane Lowe]
And then boom, you did! And it didn't stop for years!
[Eminem]
Well boom, it happened but at the same time, like - I never wanted to - when things did did keep happening and when certain things kept hitting the radio and things like that, I mean, I don't think I'm stupid. I'm not stupid. Like, I know when a song has a certain particular sound and sounds like "well maybe this could possibly be a radio record", or when I'm going "f**, sh**, a**!" you know what I'm saying, and I know "this will never go to radio". But at the same time, if a song starts heading that way, cause a lot of times I may even think, I may even think certain things when I'm writing it, like, maybe what person this might connect with, you know what I'm saying like, and who I might connect with with this song. But I never, in making any song I have made, I never wanted to compromise lyrical integrity, yeah, you know, and I always wanted to make sure that if I was rapping on a beat that had some kind of appeal to it and was catchy, that I was at least doing my job as an MC, and you know what I'm saying...
[Zane Lowe]
Oh that's the struggle!
[Eminem]
And doing what I feel like I need to do.
[Zane Lowe]
That's tough man, because you want to give as much quality as you possibly can through your music, you're not going to hold yourself back in case you get successful, but at the same time like you say it's never been on the agenda, and I guess in a way that was part of what caused the problem in the first place that just manifested over that time, huh, like, how do I do both? How do I be good and not court this, not be this guy that everybody expects something from?
[Eminem]
Yeah, urm, I know that early on I went through a lot of that with the "Hi, my name is" record, and it was, urm, like I never understood, like I understood that the record was funny, and i understood that it was a little, urm, how you say, kitschy, or whatever, and maybe the hook was, the whole record was tongue-in-cheek. You know what I'm saying, like I'm still doing a lot of records like that to this day, with the tongue-in-cheek, but that record in particular was just like, it was my, it was almost like my anti-pop song cause it was like my hello to the world but it was my "f** you" to the world at the same time. So I never understood, like, when all that started happening, like holy sh** how did that become a, you know, I guess pop song.
[Zane Lowe]
So when did the penny drop and you realized the more you say "f** you", the more people are gonna say, you know, "hi, we love you"?
[Eminem]
Urm, I don't know, I mean...
[Zane Lowe]
Probably around the Marshall Mathers LP right, cause that's when it really started to, to blow up again?
[Eminem]
Yeah, I think, I think there was a lot of that, and I think that just, coming from being an underground MC and being an underdog and things like that kinda gave me that attitude I think, you know, I think that had a lot to do with it, and then, you know, watching NWA and other people, 2Pac, you know what I'm saying, like, it was like, he's not going to, him or they, aren't going to kiss your a** to make you like their music.
[Zane Lowe over snippet from "Survival"]
Yeah, that's exactly what they want to do, let things slide a bit, you know. Now, you kind of talk about that on this song here, on The Monster (plays snippet from "The Monster"), and I think this is the one where you really address it in the most eloquent way about like, it's the gift and the curse, you know, I'm aware of the trouble it can get you in, I've been through that, you know. Number 1 album, number 1 movie, number 1 this number 1 that, not really in a position to really, kind of, really, be able to absorb that, yet, it's intoxicating, isn't it?
[Eminem]
Yeah, it was like, it was this thing, where, and I'm not gonna lie, I still wish it today, that it was like this thing where I want this attention for this music, but then I wanna be able to go in public, and I wanna be able to eat a f**ing sandwich, you know what I mean, and be left alone. So, it was like "man, if I could...", because, I'd never been an attention seeker, and it seems like a hell of a career choice, you know, but, I don't like attention, that's not just why I do it, just to get attention, I don't like to be in public and walk around and be, like, here I am, you know what I mean, like, it's not what I want, I just wanted, my dream was, my dream was for like, f** man, to be able to one day, like hear rappers that I look up to on the radio, like "yo, what if Jay Z, whoever, what if they heard of me, what if they thought I was dope? You know what I'm saying like? That was where my mentality always was, was with it. So when it all went crazy it was really hard to wrap my head around, you know, a lot of it still is, but especially back then.
[Zane Lowe]
Yeah. You know, you have done something which very few people have done now, you've actually been at the center of the world, the center of that storm, and you've emerged out of it, you popped out of the other side of it, I mean. Elvis didn't do that, you know, Michael Jackson didn't do that, Whitney Houston... a lot of people who have been in the public eye to that extent, unfortunately the list of various reasons, I'm sure personal to them, is too long, who didn't make it through. You have, and what does the world look like to you, when you've come out the other side of that, and you're 5 years sober and you're looking on that chaos for some perspective?
[Eminem]
Urm, I don't know, I mean I'm definitely thankful, you know what I mean, I know that could have certainly took another path...
[Zane Lowe]
And gone that way, yeah.
[Eminem]
Yeah, I could have went another direction but, I don't know, I mean, I think that, I feel like, like I'm probably able to see it, I'm able to be more focused now than I've ever been, urm, but I'm also able to I guess put it in perspective. The problem is I can't put a lot of perspective because I don't, there's a lot that's, you know, gone, there's a lot that I don't remember, and maybe that's cool, too, you know what I'm saying, where...
[Zane Lowe]
Probably a good thing?
[Eminem]
Yeah but, I don't know man, I know, I know that, there's so many addicts in this world, you know, and people who have problems like that, that don't make it, you know what I'm saying so I, I'm thankful for that, but urr, you know, I think that's one thing that really helps me, urr, through, and just, keeps me pushing forward is the music, is the pa**ion for that and, and, and, you know.